fusionatl

This is in 1 Kings 22

19 Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD : I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'

23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

See...I understand that the lying spirit is probably satan, and i've read where that same lying spirit was in the garden with adam and eve. and sometimes, God "doing something" in the old testament is really just God "permitting something." but why would he WANT to entice the king of israel like that? obviously the king of israel was a bad man. but i never really saw God being one to ask the angels..."how can we get this man killed?" it seems like he was asking satan, "will you kill the king for me? will you make all of my prophets lie?"

any answers anybody?

Hey David, good question. I have a book called "Hard Sayings of the Bible." I like what it has to say...

"Because Ahab had abandoned the Lord his God and hardened his own heart, God allowed his ruin by the very instrument Ahab had sought to prostitute for his own purposes, namely, prophecy. God used the false declarations of the false prohpets that Ahab was so enamored with as his instruments of judgment...We note that the passage in question is a vision that Micaiah reveals to Ahab. God is telling Ahab, "Wise up. I am allowing your prophets to lie to you." In a sense, God is revealing further truth to Ahab rather than lying to him. If God were truly trying to entrap Ahab into a life-threatening situation, he would not have revealed the plan to him! Even so, Ahab refuses to heed God's truth, and he follows his prophets' advice."

So for me reading this, it's like God is saying, "HEY AHAB!!!! Your prophets have turned into your gods instead of me. So I'm going to let them lie to you which will result in your death if you don't wise up. So you better ditch them and return to me."

i can see that.

so God made an angel to be a lying spirit? that's pretty confusing. just like the angel of death during the passover. what's all that about anyways? God created angels, then assigned at least one of them to kill people, and another to be a lying spirit? i think that's where i want some clarification.

I think you stated that in your first post... the "lying spirit" was probably satan or another fallen angel. I wouldn't believe that God could create a "lying spirit" b/c God cannot lie. That's stated numerous times in scripture & God wouldn't create an angel who sinned by lying.

As far as the angel of death during passover...
I think this is a different thing all together. I used to think that the "angel of death" was a demon that God loosed on the Egyptians, but I don't believe that any longer... for several reasons.
1) Exodus 12:12 reads, "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn." That's probably enough right there. The scripture tells us that God Himself passed through Egypt to kill the firstborn. This is righteous judgement, not a demon.

2) The 6th Commandment tells us that "though shalt not murder." Some translations say, "though shalt not kill." But that translation of "kill" doesn't work b/c God tells us numerous times after this that there are certain behaviors deserving of death & He even tells soldiers in numerous places to kill others (both in battle and not in battle). From everything I've read, 'murder' is the correct translation not 'kill.' But what has happened is that it has sunk in that "though shalt not kill." Therefore, where we read in the OT that somebody was killed, we assume it wasn't God. But, as weird as it is to write, killing can be justified but murder can't. This is why righteous judgement is a reality. It's not 'murder' which is outlawed in the 10 commandments. So, therefore it is scripturally sound that God Himself swept through Egypt and killed all the firstborns.

Judgement and death are not proof that God is evil, but rather proof that God is good, holy & righteous. The OT is one story of God establishing a holy people unto Himself. And He went to great extremes to make sure that nothing evil crept into Jewish society. Much of the death & killing you see in the OT is God protecting the Israelites from the influence of foreigners and their gods. It comes off really extreme to us, but is completely valid in the context of history and what God was doing at that time.

very awesome explanation of the passover. i wish i had known that like 10 years ago. it's not murder. it's killing, or judgment.

so that leads me to my next question...death penalty? i guess that's not murder? i know in the old testament jews were to kill a man who killed a man. but then Jesus came and that changed everything.

there's the one scene where they were about to stone the adulterous woman. but they didn't because Jesus was like "if you haven't sinned, then stone her" so nobody did.

what is your take on the death penalty. is that right of the U.S. to have it? or is it wrong?

also. i want to give some closing thoughts to the whole ahab scene. i guess it's key that God asked "who will entice him."

enticing someone isn't wrong. it's the motive behind it. if a woman wants to entice a man to steal him from the wife, that's wrong. if God wants to entice a man to rid him from his position of power, that's just like judgment.

maybe God knew another way to entice Ahab, but chose (for whatever reason) not to be the one to entice him. maybe an angel could have dressed like something beautiful and lured him off a cliff. but satan, or whoever the lying spirit is, stepped up and took the challenge of enticing him. then at that point, this lying spirit was allowed to get in the minds of the 400 (i think it was that many) prophets and make them all hear God wrong. that's kinda scary when you think about it...

i guess that's why Jesus said call nobody teacher but God. back to what you were saying. maybe if ahab had gone to God, rather than his prophets history would have been different for Ahab.

so i guess in conclusion to all of this. if you make anyone else your god, satan has rule over you...how does that sound?

there are like 3 or 4 questions in there.

Yah, a few questions in there.

1) You said "Enticing someone isn't wrong...that's just like judgement." I agree with the way that sounds, but then we get this scripture.

James 1:13-14
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.

I'm sure when you compare the scripture from 1 Kings "who will entice him?" with James 1 "God does not tempt anyone", that gets into a little bit of a theological debate. My take is that James 1 is the most declarative statement so we have to agree that God doesn't tempt people (and therefore the messengers of God don't tempt people). So I don't think "an angel would have lured him off a cliff"...ha!!!! I guess carrying on the thought of God's question in 1 Kings would be the topic of another thread...

2) "If you make anybody else your God, Satan has rule over you..." I guess that could be true. I would like to say though that Satan has no authority except for that which God gives him. I think we definitely give Satan a foothold in our lives when we do stupid stuff like Ahab was doing. I think this story is illustrating that God really does care what is going on in a nation & that by His grace sometimes He will step in and resolve the situation. But I think the takeaway for us is, like you said, call nobody teacher but God and accept no truth in the "prophetic" arena except for His truth.

3) Death Penalty! That one's big enough to make it's own post. I'm going to make a new post for it.