fusionatl

Ok, I know that I am going out on a very skinny limb here, but I’d really like to hear other’s thoughts on the upcoming elections. Since this is murky water, and discussing any candidate will undoubtedly offend someone on this forum, let’s agree to some ground rules:

1. Please distinguish any FACTS from OPINIONS both when posting and in reading posts. (if you have a fact to share try to site a source)
2. No name-calling- this includes candidates and forum members
3. Because we are so diverse on this site, someone will likely disagree with anything we post. Disagree politely.

Let the civilized, adult discussion begin!

hey ginic,

thanks for your feedback on my previous post, i liked everything you said, you were right on point. So politics, yea i was really into the democratic race, but now that it is over im kind of clueless on what both candidates have to offer. From what i've seen both candidates seem smart and capable to lead this country, some people may disagree, but that's just my opinion. When I hear the candidates/party speakers talk, i question if everything they say is said for a vote in November? or are they really speaking from a desire to make United States better? So much goes into the so called "Political strategies" that i just d/k...That's the thing about politics, sometimes you see a lot of deceiving politicians running their mouth. (No names) Also, I think voting for the best candidate is the way to go, not necessarily voting bc of party alliance. So I think the next president should focus on turning the economy around, that seems to be the big issue right now, and I think it can be done. History has shown that it can be done. I just don't want to see people trade their moral and spiritual convictions so they can see the american dream prosper again...there is a lot at stake, and we need to ask God for guidance in order to make a wise decision. The future is bright for America, i believe it. Sorry i don't have too many facts right now, to back up my point, just my opinions. My name is Daniel Bello by the way, and yes im Colombian, and even though technically i can't vote, I still like wanted to voice my opinions.

For anyone who's interested here's a link to Barack Obama's speech accepting the Democratic nomination for President. Even if you are not a fan, it's a pretty historic event b/c this speech was given exactly 45 years to the day after Martin Luther King Jr's 'I Have A Dream' speech and the march on Washington. Who would have thought that in less then 50 years we would go from Civil Rights to Presidential nomination.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/28/barack-obama-democratic-c_n_122224.html

Today John McCain selected his Vice President running-mate. He suprised everyone by picking Alaskan Gov Sarah Palin. Here's a link to her speech earlier today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpPpfYOe92c

Yah, I was reading some commentators earlier today saying that Obama is as good of a speaker as Reagan was... pretty high compliment.

I thought for sure that Obama was going to sweep the elections, but after the Saddleback talk with Rick Warren, I thought McCain did really well & it seems like they've evened out.

It's really interesting to see the VP candidates that each have selected. Obama (only 2 years in the US Senate) selected a seasoned veteran to be his VP. McCain (22 years in the senate) selected a newbie, 1st term Alaskan governor to be his VP. So the newbie picked an oldie & the oldie picked a newbie.

I definitely think McCain's pick is a stretch. A young woman will definitely get him some votes, but the thought that a 1st term governor (runner up in the miss-Alaska contest) could be President if anything happens to the 72 year old might scare even more people off if they truly stop to think about it.

I honestly haven't deeply researched it (plenty of time left to do that) but after watching the Saddleback talk, I'm choosing McCain at this point. I like his answers & the way he carried himself. I specifically liked how it seemed like he had really thought through the questions (I know everybody, he wasn't in the "cone of silence" but he answered questions that Obama didn't get the same great way he answered all the other ones). I think that just comes from being, well... so old. He has a lot of life experience. I would rather trust our country with an old guy with lots of experience than a younger guy (even with as much charisma as he has, he still just doesn't have the experience).

I know that doesn't hit the issues, but there will be plenty more posts on here that do that!

The forum that Pastor Johnson mentioned can be found here:

http://trevinwax.com/2008/08/17/obama-mccain-with-rick-warren-at-saddleback-forum-video/

Rick Warren (Pastor and author of A Purpose Driven Life/Church) held an open forum where both candidates were asked the same questions regarding everything from personal character to the economy. Great way to get to know the candidates and their views a bit…

Here’s the link to the video and transcript of Sara Palin’s RNC acceptance speech. Enjoy!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/sarah-palin-rnc-conventio_n_123703.html

And here is the response to her speech from the Democrats:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/dems-react-to-palin-speec_n_123858.html

I was wondering if someone would say something about this. You're pretty brave

Does that constitute name calling? (I'm sorry)

Thanks! I know for the last Presidential election I knew almost nothing about the candidates. this will hopefully be a thread where people can find facts and know where each party stands so they can be informed voters.

Hey guys, now that the elections are getting closer I'm getting more and more e-mail from co-workers, friends, etc about the candidates. Here is are a few links to websites. I don't know if even 1/2 of any of this is true. Take from it what you like. I am not caliming allegiance to either of the candidates. I do find the media surrounding all of this sketchy yet entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM3oww9Vk-c

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/325.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luA0AMP5 ... re=related

I'm voting for Barak even though the system might try to prevent me coming up with ridiculous stuff like I'm not a legal citizen or some mess.

I just don't understand how anyone who calls themselve a Christian could vote for Obama.

Carl wrote:I just don't understand how anyone who calls themselve a Christian could vote for Obama.

Im afraid of my fellow sheep. It seems we are not thinking or not making any connection. Commonly as people we tend to see symptoms as the problem when the two are completely different. A good example of this is the black plague one of the deadliest pandemics in human history, was a symptom of inadequate sanitation. So the real problem was inadequate sanitation which allowed the symptom the black plague to prosper.
Why is this relevant today. Its relevant because all of my christian brother and sister are voting based off two symptoms of other societal problems th sympthoms are abortions and homsexuality and churches are encouraging people to vote on these two symptoms. Now just like my fellow sheep I know these two to be wrong. So with wisdom we need the shine light on to the situation. We need to think on how economics and education effect these two sympthons. In addition to this the state of the church but I dare not even focus on that. I feel certain that by attacking the symptons we are actually creating more problems and distracting ourselves from the real battle. Any resource (time, money and thought)used to stop gay right and abortion laws is spent at the cost of battling satanic media and giving to the poor weather they be financial poor or mentally poor. parrell to the opprotuinty cost of enforcing abortion and antigay laws. Lies cons of having these laws. It is possible laws against the two can have enormous consequences. One subtle con is the fact we christains will celebrate the victory and then feel this issue does not demand attention anymore. Antoher con is found through history, whenever prohibition is made on a demand it puts the problem in the dark and grows the black market. Many social problems have been attributed to the Prohibition era. A profitable, often violent, black market for alcohol flourished. Racketeering happened when powerful gangs corrupted law enforcement agencies. Stronger liquor surged in popularity because its potency made it more profitable to smuggle. The cost of enforcing Prohibition was high, and the lack of tax revenues on alcohol (some $500 million annually nationwide) affected government coffers.Believe an increase of unwanted children and illegal abortions will be devastating in bringing about types of sin. But even above all this let us remeber in your lifetime the lord was patient with us as we came into obidience and before then gave us freedom of choice. I welcome correction on this issue.

I'm sorry; I am not exactly sure what you are saying. I just would like to understand your point a little bit better. Please correct me if I am stating this incorrectly but are you saying that laws passed against choices (such as having an abortion) will just cause an increased rate of abortions? If this is what you are stating then I was wondering what would be your opinion on what to do about issues that are incongruent with what the Lord says.

Well besides many spelling errors I would have the following comments on your comments Ange:

I do not think most people are voting solely based on abortion and homosexuality. If it were that simple I would be at least pleased that people are thinking. It has been my observation that most people are voting based on both "race" (I like him cause he's black or cause he's not) and catch phrases (Change, Experience)

I've sat and listened to person after person tell me that there voting for Obama because we need a black man in the White House. That is by far the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The fact that we would vote for a person because of the color of his skin is just as bad a hating someone based on the color of their skin. It's placing ill based judgments and pre conceived ideas on another because of racial background. Most people are looking right past qualifications and experience and looking at the thing that matters the least. Skin.

The second major theme of this election has been catch phrases like; "I'm gonna change things... I'm for change." Like what? When someone tells me that they're voting for a candidate because that candidate is for "change" I ask them what kind of change. What things will your candidate change? Name three things that your candidate will do? If you cannot, then you are both ignorant and deceived.

So... I'm not sure if your post was all about the election or Christianity vs. Politics in general but that's what I have to say about that.

…..

Now… as far as what you were talking about… I definitely see your point. We (the church) often take up the wrong causes and battle fervently for the things that matter the least. But we (the church) must also be careful not to lean too far to the other side and not take up any causes. We shouldn’t, as you have said, lay all of our eggs in the “abortion” basket. What’s the use in getting Roe v. Wade overturned and letting the country go to garbage everywhere else. But … (there’s always a but…) I don’t think we must stop attacking one (abortion) in order to attack another (battling satanic media). If we can’t do more than one thing at a time then we are really in a bad spot. I don’t think you need correcting but maybe the chance to see it from another point of view.

But (there's that but again...) you did say something that I would like to hear more about… You said; “(I) Believe an increase of unwanted children and illegal abortions will be devastating in bringing about types of sin.” Can you please expound on this. I would really like to her more on this train of thought. So…

That’s all I have to say about that… I hope my response was in line with your question / comment.

Nes