fusionatl

Wow.

It's pretty interesting around here.

I'll throw my 2 cents in as someone who did court and did not kiss until the preacher said 'you may now kiss the bride,' and is recently married and still considered a newlywed. Mind you, I'm pregnant and may begin to ramble so bear with me.

Jose hit it right on the head - each persons courtship is their own courtship. When we start dissecting and comparing we may be inching towards the side of judgment - which is not ours to administer in anyway.

What worked for me and Avery's courtship was not what worked for someone else's courtship.. I know this because we have many friends who courted and all our stories are different - but we all brought glory to God through our relationships. As a courting couple you take the word of God and sit down together and decide what is pleasing and not pleasing in regards to those grey areas - kissing, hugging, hand holding, late night phone calls, late night dinner dates, whatever.

We decided not to kiss - not because someone else told us not to - but because we're both royal relationship screw-ups and didn't want to ruin something so precious that was obviously from God. Also - there came a point when hugging became too much for us - just keeping it real. What noone on the outside sees is how a courtship progresses - only the courting couple sees this.

Okay - but back to the 'STOP GIVING THESE WOMEN FALSE HOPES.'

I'll be real and maybe the first woman on here to say it - ladies stop revealing your heart. Yes, men have their faults - but this is very much a 50/50 road here. I counsel women so I know that we have this illusion of grandeur when it comes to men - maybe the man is just trying to be nice and that's it.

Women stop being enablers. Stop allowing your thoughts to run all over the place when someone holds the door open for you, or says your hair looks nice, or calls you and invites you to a group bowling event. Johnson already mentioned it, but Proverbs 4:23 Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.

If we were truly treating one another as sisters and brothers and children of the most high before potential boyfriends, girlfriends, courtees, fiancees, husbands, and wives - we probably wouldn't have this issue.

Victora wrote:I understand that the relationship maybe between you, accountability, and the Lord but your peers should be able to be honest with you, maybe they will see something you and accountability missed. Before my husband and I married accountability was great but they only knew what we told them it was my family and friends who was always around us not accountability.

If you have the right to speak into someone's life - like the couple has actually given you that influence - then yes. But I think we all need to remember love needs to be our motive here, not control.

A relationship is so precious and fragile. It's like a Faberge egg. When too many people try to use their "I'm doing this because I love you and don't want to see you stumble" hat with unwarranted "counsel" it comes across controlling and can be very pressuring for an already sensitive situation. That's why it is soooo important to go into an accountability relationship being honest. If you're not going to be honest - that's between you and God. Noone else will stand before Him to give an account of your relationship... you will.

I totally feel what you are saying Victora, however thats why i put the disclaimer up there that my post reply was not directed toward anyone personally.

But I will say this... anyone can hold someone accountable for something. Question is do you trust that person enough for them to be accountable for you? Also in regards to accountability... For example, if I were married , and I just found out my wife cheated on me and I needed some advice on how to handle it. The last person I would go to would be someone who is single and has never been married (and not a spiritual leader in my life).

Again in the end , what works for you, may not always work for someone else. I learned that in small group; Thanks Remedy!

I think that a huge piece of the puzzle we aren’t remembering here is trust. I have several friends who are courting/dating/newlyweds and I have seen each of them have their ups and downs. I love and care for each one of them and don’t want any of them to fall into temptation or sexual sin, but it isn’t my arena to be questioning them on how late they were out last night, if they kissed, if they were at an apartment alone, etc. It isn’t my place. They did not ask me to hold them accountable in the gray areas.

Now if I find out they are sleeping together (sin) then I will confront them in love and expose it to their accountability if they are unwilling to do it themselves, because it isn’t gray, it’s sin.

What I’m trying to say is that more than anything else, I trust the Lord to keep them. More than I trust any amount of resistance level they have, or boundaries they set, or even the accountability over them, I trust that God in His love and mercy will keep them. I can’t be their guard, that’s the Holy Spirit’s job.

jemiohe wrote:I am not getting to anyone's business, this is just what I have observed, and I believed that if we want to go to a higher level of Christ certain things have to be addressed. Relationships in fusion maintaining their purity happens to be one of them. As a matter of fact I am not deperate to be with anyone right now. I actually have had many oppurtunities to be courted but I have chosen to seek God's face instead. I had to tell my my dream guy last week that I cannot not court him until my heart and life is totally surrendered to Christ. I chose Christ above anything and anyone.

By your own admission, you have turned down many opportunities to date and even tuned down your "dream guy" so that you can "surrender to God"...here's my question...

If you are trying to focus on Christ why does it matter how other people are relating to one another? Wouldn't your eyes be fixated on Christ so much so that you don't have time to pay attention to anything this else? Don't get me wrong, I agree that we need to keep it real with our bros & sis, but in love. We should only be saying those things that encourage, build up and edify. If we observe behavior that's inappropriate we sould be praying for one another that the Lord continues to perfect us in Him.

Philippians 3:12-14 (Message)
I'm not saying that I have this all together, that I have it made. But I am well on my way, reaching out for Christ, who has so wondrously reached out for me. Friends, don't get me wrong: By no means do I count myself an expert in all of this, but I've got my eye on the goal, where God is beckoning us onward—to Jesus. I'm off and running, and I'm not turning back.

Pursuing Christ does not mean that you have to be out of touch with reality. I love Christ therefore I love his people. I have a passion for his people and want to see them at their full potential. I believe in order to extend the kingdom of God we as a church body needs to be on point and If I see anything that can potentially hindered the body of Christ and yea I will speak on it. If we can't be real in the church then how are we going to reach souls for Christ. People are hurting and dying and we are too busy trying to be politically correct. Come on let's get with the program!!!

There is nothing wrong with that , however decency and order is key.

I think that if you feel so passionate about something, you should labor and pray about it, and ask God to show you how to handle it. Alot of times God lets us see things only to be aware. This reminds me of a question that was asked at fusion when we had the forum, and the person asked "If God shows you something or tells you something in essence to someone else, how do you approach them to tell them."

I believe it was a mixture of DeDe and Tai , that said sometimes God shows us things , so that we know what to pray for.

Definitely. Jesus was relevent and so should we. We all should want to see the Body of Christ come up higher. But when you are talking about seeing things that hinder the body and speaking on it, who are you speaking it to? Are you just venting on the Forum? People ARE hurting and dying. We should be fishing for souls. But are we fishing in the church?

Because emotions and tempers are running high we have locked this topic and are going to give it some time to cool off.

Avery

OK. So we’ve had a good 7 hours to calm down and breathe. So, remember this is not the place for personal attacks. We are all free to have different opinions but... in love.

So, I think Jemiohe's question is still on the table and can be discussed in a civil manner. Even though some of the statements were blanket statements the point is that this does exists in Fusion. Some men do lead some women on. Even though women have a part to play in this I believe the question brought up by Johnson hones in on a great point. What, in a women’s perspective can / should a man do to not give this impression.

Johnson wrote:You also said, "All I have to say is if you are a man and have a female that you hang with, talk to on the phone and you don't have any desire to eventually court that girl, please tell them right away." I agree that that eventually needs to happen, but here's a question from a guy's point of view..."How would a guy do that and it not be really ackward?" "Hey, I know I met you at Fusion the other night & I'm calling you to see what's up, but I really don't like you like that & don't want to court you." I think that would be the most ackward conversation ever.

We have identified the problem so let's discuss the solution… and remember… keep it far from personal.

I suggest that since we all obvioucly feel so strong about this lets set time out of schedules to pray on it luv you guys and girls lol

In response to Johnson's post---

I think the best part a guy could play in this thing is to realize that females are wired emotionally. The same way guys struggle with lust, porn, etc girls struggle with rejection, affection, and the other thousand ‘nameless’ emotions we run into. What most guys see as a friendly conversation, girls can sometimes read into a bit deeper. This isn’t always the man’s fault.

Ladies, it is our job to guard or hearts. I’ve said it before on a different post but, girls, we KNOW when our heart is involved. When you catch yourself looking for his car in the parking lot, that’s a pretty good sign you need to cool your jets and put some time and space between you.

Gentlemen, there is some responsibility on your end too. Don’t treat any girl like ‘one of the guys’ because I can almost promise you she has significant emotions invested in your “friendship”. Don’t call her 4 times a week to see how she is, because what looks like a friendly gesture to you can come across as much more to a female because we are wired emotionally. I know, I know, “How does me calling her often make her think I’m into her?” Women think differently. Here is my thought process behind those phone calls (yes I’ve been down this road before as well). If he called me for no real reason, that means he was thinking about me. Simple as that. Now I can’t guarantee this is every woman’s train of thought, but I don’t think it differs too far in most cases. What that says to a girl is “I find you worth talking to---I find you valuable.” Unfortunately, most women don’t hear that enough from their fathers so when you say it (without saying it I might add) you begin to fill an emotional need that was designed for fathers and for God. That is how women get hurt. Most of you don’t try to do it, it’s just the way we perceive what you do.

if i ever do anything with my lady that makes ya'll stumble then please do approach me personally. i've got no problem with that.

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

Matthew 18:15-17

as one who is in a courtship, i believe holding hands and hugging and me kissing her forehead and cheeks is a show of affection. it's not sin. but if it does make anyone fall or stumble or lust, then approach me, and let me know, and we can talk this through. this touch affection in this way separates my relationship with her from the rest.

we are humans. not angels. not animals.

Responding to Ginger:

I really was trying to avoid saying anything because its sounds like everyone points are valid to me because, God knows your heart and he knows where you are coming from even if know nobody else dosn't. He sees you and he sees where you are and even where you are getting your opinions from. Sometimes we want approval of other people opinions and there is one man who knows you from the inside out and that is GOD. This is a good discussion because its obviuos burning is some people's hearts. I have to co-sign with Ginger, ladies be careful know who you are an, turn it into prayer, you will be amazed the things GOD will show you. Just know your worth and that you are valuable. Guard your heart and check your heart at all times. We are very vital to the body and we cant heal the broken hearted proclaim in Isaiah 61 if we dont protect our own heart.

I just have to add this:

When you lay down at night its just you and GOD, so therefore this is good but check your motives ladies and gents, because we can talk about this all day but the matters are in our hearts. Make sure they are pure, are we really seeing each other as we are suppose to in CHRIST is my question? We say yeah we are but are actions shows opposite, if we are seeing each other that way then this wouldnt be an issue is what it all boils down to. We cant read all these things and throw in the back burner and point the finger, because its an issue and one thing we all can do is pray for one another with a pure heart.