fusionatl

Hey guys, I have a question. Recently, I was watching a particular minister speaking on the church being fooled and mislead. He brought up the topic of today's youth and the Hip Hop culture. He also mentioned the movement or introduction of the music into churches giving it the name "holy Hip Hop" My question is do you think that hip hop music/culture can be holy?

I know there's different takes on Holy Hip Hop. Absolutely, hip hop culture Godly. Proverbs 6:16 says the Lord despises a "proud look" or "haughty eyes"... something that hip/hop relies on... a prideful stance/life/look. And, obviously the lyrics & lifestlye are not Godly either.
I think, for the most part, "Holy Hip Hop" is Godly... the lyrics are probably fine. If there's one thing that still worries me, it's the "proud look" that is still really prevalent in many of the groups. It's like the show is still the same, the actions are still the same... we just substitute in Christian lyrics.
I think there's great potential in Holy Hip Hop. But there needs to be a little more of a break with "the other side" in my opinion. But I don't know about the church being "fooled & mislead" by it.
But hey, I'm a 29 year old white guy. What do I know?!?!

Well, I felt pretty similar @ one time, but then started becoming a little uneasy with it after hearing some opinions from non Christians. One day I was @ the barber shop and a video of this guy was was playing. He was talking about the hip hop culture and how it wasn't Godly. He says that the church is being fooled b/c we don't know the origins of the music and culture. He goes into pretty good detail and explains his point of view very well.

I'm really not a big fan of the hip hop and rap music that is being put out today,but I'm going to be honest and say that even though I don't always listen to hip hop...I do have a few albums by different artists that I usually listen to on road trips, or music I grew up liking. After hearing the as much of the message as I could during my time at the Barber, I left and thought to myself the guy was a little extreme.

I went back to the barber again for my normal visit, and once again my barber is playing a video of this guy. This time he had several clients ahead of me, so I was able to watch more of the video than before. He broke down the definition of Hip Hop from the creators of the movement. He stated that according to them, Hip Hop means"butt shaking" and went on to ask does that mean that Holy hip hop means "holy butt shaking"?

After listening to more and more of the message I was like wow, this is really deep. So I did some quick research and apparently this gut has been around for several years and has been on a mission to enlighten people on the hidden secrets behind some of the "harmless" things we do and bring into our lives.
His name is G. Craig Lewis. He heads this ministry called EX Ministries. You can do a search for him and see some clips from some of his videos on youtube, yahoo, google, etc. You can also visit the ministry's website.

http://www.exministries.com/main.html

There is a lot of stuff on the site talking about hip hop, holy hip hop, secular and Christian artists, as well as other ministries.

I haven't really made a clear cut opinion about everything that I have seen on the videos or website, but I believe he brings to light some areas that need some investigating and discussion.

Anyway, I hope you guys find some time to look this guy up and some of the things he and his ministry are saying/doing.

btw 29 year old white guy(pretty funny), but from what this minister is saying you probably know as much as most of the listeners who aren't educated on the movement/culture.

Thanks Eddie, I'll go check out that site when I get a few minutes.

But I would definitely be a little careful when judging something solely based off its origin. While there is some validity to it, that's an awful lot like saying "You're screwed up because your grandad was."

Our calendar was originally pagan. Does that mean that every time we say March 4th, we are worshipping the Roman God Mars? If we can't play Holy Hip Hop b/c of its origins then that would mean that rock music is pagan too & we couldn't play 90% of the stuff we play in Fusion. It's documented that Thomas Eddison was an atheist... does that mean we shouldn't use electricity?

I know you're not the one who made those statements so I'm not really talking to you, but I think we need to be careful how easily we write off certain stuff based on its name or association. I absolutely agree that many of the early rock & rap artists (and even current day) have jacked up stuff in their music (reference the videos "They sold their soul for rock & roll"). But what if "Holy Hip Hop" was simply called "Christian Rap"? Would it be okay then b/c it doesn't have the words "Hip Hop" in it? See what I mean?

And (time for the soap box), where do we get off calling anything besides a person "Christian"? Christian means 'follower of Christ' or 'one who believes on Christ for salvation'. So can we really call Christian music "Christian"? Can there be a "Christian Billboard"? Has the Billboard said the 'sinner's prayer?' How about a "Christian car?" Maybe "Christian food"? And what makes "Christian music" 'Christian'? When they say 'Jesus' in it or that it's put out by a "Christian" label? I think there can be holy music & there can be pure music & there can be some music that's more God-glorifying than others... but denoting anything other than a person "Christian" can get sticky really quick.

Personally, I believe you have to take each song & hold it up to the light to see if there is good in it. If not, throw it out the window.

And that's how I feel about Holy Hip Hop. If it's good & pure & draws you closer to Christ then pump it loud & don't stop. But please don't throw anything out the window because of it's origins or the last 2 words in its name. If we did that with people, houses, churches, cars, or food we would be in a lot of trouble.

yea, i like that johnson. i'm very much a fan of music that is awesome. and by awesome i mean what you said..."good, pure, God glorifying, so on so forth."

i remember one of my most confusing yet exciting encounters with God was at a rock show while an artist, who isn't under a "christian" label, ended his show.

he just started to sing...

"when i'm lost and it seems the end
like there's only certain death
You tell me to live

when dark clouds cover the sky
like there's not hope you are the light
You tell me to live

when i'm all by myself
and i'm scared about my health
You tell me to live"

i was just blown away. and it was at a rock show. and this guy was obviously singing/praying to God. but this was a totally "non-Christian" scene. I love those "non-Christian" scenes, because there you don't have to pretend to be a Christian. you just be who you are. you don't raise your hands because everyone else is. you don't shout to try to pump yourself up and wonder..."is someone looking at me like i'm crazy?"

kids in Europe sing those same words. in places where like 3% of the population is Christian, people are singing those words. the artist is leading these people to God and it's not about "rock." it's not about his band name. it's about what's going on that we can't see.

I'm not saying that lyrics of a rap song or any type of song for that matter can't be uplifting or give a positive message. Please don't get the question confused, thinking it's only about music. What I'm asking is regarding hip hop the culture..not rap...as similar as they may seem they are not one in the same. I know that a lot of the things that we do, and say, and live with has pagan roots. The issue that he addresses in my opinion is more about conforming and/or compromising.
I know this is a touchy topic, b/c no one wants to say they aren't living a holy life...and if listening to and enjoying holy hip hop isn't really holy then we are admitting to something"bad". I'm not trying to condemn anyone. I'm just trying to present a topic that I find to be very interesting.

The thing that sticks out as a good example is how churches often participate in pagan traditions, such as halloween and try to give it a nicer image and positive spin by calling it the fall festival or have an easter egg hunt because it seems like something innocent. As is stated I think that a lot of what this guy says has merit and deserves some investigation...he may not be completely accurate in statements, but he isn't completely wrong either. I know that God can use anything he wants as a tool to further his plans for the earth, but at the same time God can also not use a tool or sacrifice b/c it isn't good enough(unclean or profane as the old testament would say). Would we consider teaching striptease classes in a church because it's good excercise? I highly doubt it. Would we go get drunk @ the bar to minister to the others who are drunk b/c they are a little more receptive to hearing the word.Very Unlikely. I really hope that what I'm saying makes a little sense. Maybe we can rent this DVD series and have a screening of it or something. [/url]

I think I may have been avoiding this post and I apologize. Not everyone knows this but I am studying Audio Production in school and there is alot that I have learned about the music industry that I have had to learn because I believe that it is hard to minister if you don't know the enemy.
First thing that you have to know is that Hip Hop as is defined by many is NOT a form of music, but a culture. Just type hip hop in on wikipedia . As a matter of fact not many of you know this but Hip Hop is actually a RELIGION now.
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:P3AuKiigGGMJ:www.templeofhiphop.org/+templeofhiphop&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
(I think the site is down for maintenance this is what it looked like on August 13th)
Led by a man who calls himself KRS-ONE name meaning "Knowledge Reigns Supreme Over Nearly Everything" Which to anyone who is savy knows that it is a very 5 Percenter-esque type thing to call yourself. (Ask me about the 5 percent thing later)

This is the first thing that bothers me about "the name" HOLY Hip Hop , is how are you going to just slap a name on something and you have no idea what it means CLEARLY the first person to coin the phrase had no idea. And now artists of the genre look at us like we are stupid because of our lack of knowledge.
Don't get me wrong I "REALLY" enjoy listening to Lacrae, and Flame, and our brother Eric in his group D2O. But putting the word "Holy" on Hip Hop... nah we need to find another way to identify it.
The second thing is (and I want to phrase this carefully) the church in recent years has had a habit of trying to be like the world to get its attention. Placing the word Holy in front of Hip Hop seems like the same story.

So brother Eddie to answer your original question, NO the Hip Hop Culture and what They consider good music cannot be Holy.