fusionatl

Just wondering what the belief out there is on this...What does the bible say?........What do you believe?.........Are they in agreement???

Went big leagues on this one hombre!

Personally, I believe that you can "lose" your salvation. I've seen it with my own eyes & I think you can find evidences in Scripture as well. Romans 11:22 for one.
Also, looking at the parable of the sower...
Matthew 13: 20-21 “When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away”

Mark 13:13 Jesus says, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

I believe the word 'believe' throughout the NT, as found in John 3:16, is an ongoing verb... as in "he who continues believing will have eternal life" not "he who believed once & said the prayer will have eternal life."

But this, of course, is totally one of those things where you can find evidences on the other side of the line as well.

Romans 8:30
John 3:3
John 10:28-30

Some of the argument lies in the fact that some people simply "pray the prayer" and actually have no heart transformation, not ever truly being born again. I think that plays in here b/c you have people walking around who say they are saved but then fall away.

Bottom line... I don't think Christianity is about works & we shouldn't constantly be afraid of losing our salvation. I think we work our salvation out daily with fear and trembling b/c God is an incredible God & we will have to stand before Him face-to-face one day to give an account. But I believe that salvation produces a heart change in us that makes us want to serve God and live for Him. But I also believe that you can deny that leaning on your heart & deny God & deny His hand in your life & flat out deny Him.

I think at the base of this lies the "called" vs "chosen" argument. What role do we have to play in salvation & what role does God play.

Anyway... I'm tired. Hope that made a little sense.

good question. I think that you can lose yor salvation. Like Johnson said, there seems to be evidence to support both, but I think ultimatley the answer is yes. If not, then why try to help our brothers and sisters who have back slidden? Why even mention those who have grabbed hold of the plow and turned away, or those who don't count the cost of being a disciple and leave the fold? I don't know at what point your salvation is "lost" but, I do think it is possible.

So I pose this question. From all I have read/heard regarding the original 12 disciples, I assume at least 11 of them makes it to Heaven. So, if that is the case would you say that Judas "lost" his salvation or that he was never truely saved? This may be a question for another post, but so far that's my 2 cents.

Anyone else?????

I agree that you can lose your salvation, but I don’t believe that you lose it by sinning necessarily. There is a difference between messing up and turning your back on Jesus. I don’t think that someone who is seeking God loses their salvation b/c they let a *&%$#@ fly just before they died in a car accident. At the same time I believe someone in ministry who is simply going through the motions of being a Christian can chose to turn their hearts from God and even though their actions are right, their heart no longer belongs to Jesus.

Remember, God sees our hearts not out works.

Yah Ginger, good point. I don't think it's a "Oh I sinned 3 times yesterday (that I know of) and I only repented for 2 of them. If I died today I would go to hell."

I definitely think losing your salvation is a willfull denial of the forgiveness of Christ on your life & choosing to go your own way. That doesn't do the argument justice but we would have to pull out our systematic theology books to go much deeper.

Hey Wendell, never got your thoughts on this.

I don't think you can lose your salvation once you are saved at all but of course this is a good topic because it touched on biblical scripture as well as predestination and biblical opinion. Here are some reasons I don't believe you can lose your salvation.


"for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." -Hebrews13:5

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," -Ephesians1:13


Many people will say if they do not live a good Christian life, God will take away their Eternal Security "Salvation". Whereas, the person that has "fallen" away from the Lord will go to hell for not keeping and maintaining a good Christian life. On the contrary, John 3:16 reads that once a believer is saved, they are always saved. The plain truth is, ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED! Some people will comment that they were once a Christian, but quit being one. Then they weren't Christians to begin with!

"...I say then, Hath God cast away his people?..." -Romans 11:1

The moment you call upon Jesus Christ to take you to heaven when you die, you are SAVED. Did you have to do anything to obtain such a wonderful blessing from The Lord? "Besides call upon Him". No! So, is their any difference to say that you can lose your Eternal Salvation if you do something wrong? No! You can commit some horrible sins as a Christian, and still hold on to your Salvation! That doesn't mean, though, a Christian can get away with sinning.
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" -John 11:26

Would Satan do such a thing as this nonsense? Satan knows he's going to burn in Hell for ever. So what does he concur? He tries his hardest to deceive BILLIONS of people in going to Hell with him! He'll do ANYTHING to make a lost soul stay lost from Jesus Christ! When you were once lost and going to hell, Satan was your father! But when you received God's wonderful gift for Salvation, you became a child of God! Did Satan give up? No! He still tried to lure your new soul into temptation away from your Heavenly Father! Satan doesn't GIVE UP! So why would God GIVE UP on His OWN CHILDREN?! He won't! God made a promise to NEVER leave his children whether they be good or bad NO MATTER WHAT!
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." -John10:28

So many people refuse to accept the fact, in order to get saved, all they have to do is put their faith in Jesus Christ. Why? People generally have a hard time to believe in something they can't use their five senses on. So these pseudo cults come up with man made traditions telling people if they follow this religion they'll be guaranteed Eternal Salvation! Such as, getting baptized, living a sinless life, going to Purgatory, "speaking in tongues to prove your saved"(which I see a lot of and had people in various churches say I am not saved because of), being slain in the spirit, and all whole bunch of other gimmicks! This is works! Not Faith! This way is Hell's way! Faith lead to the path of God's way! You DON'T have to do works to KEEP your salvation! It's by FAITH your saved into God's kingdom!

"Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ's merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God's Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is equal to saying that Jesus' death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus' death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins - past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21)."



As Pastor Cary Brown would always stress to me whenever I would talk to him about my personal sin he would Always tell me to remember

"For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as result of WORKS, so that no one may boast Ephesians 8

Rest in peace Pastor Cary

Hey Jeff, good points. Like we kind of laid out at the beginning, this is something that people have been arguing about for 2,000 years and we're not going to settle it here on an online forum! This is because people read the same scriptures and get two different translations combined with the fact that, simply put, there are scriptures on both sides of this argument.

Hebrews 3:12-14
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

I have to think that faith has a large roll to play in this and I can't buy the argument that if someone goes away from the Lord then they never knew Him to begin with. I've seen it too many times with people who were stinkin' fuego for too long to believe that it was all a mind game with them... people who used to sing & preach & lead & now HATE Jesus. It's horrible & it hurts, but I am firmly convinced it's a reality.

I'll repeat what I put on my first post. I don't believe it hinges on sin... what you do or don't do with your actions. Like you said, that minimizes the cross & takes that into the arena of salvation by works that stands against the entire New Testament and all its writers. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ! The devil does try to convince people they have lost their salvation by sinning. It's a trick he's had since the very beginning, but it's a complete lie. Salvation through faith alone, like you quoted from Ephesians 8.

But what happens if you lose that faith? What happens if (Heb 3) you don't hold firmly to the end the confidence you had at first? What if Matthew 13: 20-21 “When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away”? What if Romans 8:22 "Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." I have to believe there's something to all that.

I believe it's a heart issue... in the arena of what you believe in your heart & where your hope & trust is. I believe that if our salvation hinges on our faith in Christ... if we lose that faith in Christ, there has to be an effect. It's not like a quick sprint & we cross the finish line of salvation & then are like, "Yahhhhhh, I made it" and then it's up to us how to live the rest of our lives. It's a marathon & if we "hold firmly til the end the confidence we had at first" then there's no fear in eternity. But I believe there's a reason that we walk out our faith in "fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

I don't claim to be an expert in this area and my own theology on it isn't rock solid, but from what I have seen/heard/read/felt/prayed, I definitely feel that people can deny the faith and go their own way... and that has consequences.

Again, I don't think this is intended to be a "walking around daily afraid that you are going to screw up and be sent to hell" thing. This is a heart issue and, while your life should line up with your belief, if it doesn't then that's not a salvation issue.

Salvation is by faith alone and I think the argument might come back to what hapens when someone loses their faith in Christ... what happens next? Is that even possible? If so, what's the result?

My two cents.